Location: Eastbourne England
The Future of BeoWorld Membership Levels - Your Thoughts?
14 replies
First of all, thank you to all members who contributed to the Prize Draw discussion we recently had, and thank you for helping us reach the decision of an Annual Draw going forwards. This will certainly prevent BeoWorld from being in a loss-making situation and will secure the site as it is for us all to enjoy, right now.
So, going forwards into the future is the next thing to think about. Software will need updating, many annual licences need to be paid for to enable the various elements we need for functionality and ease of use, we need to update and maintain the server we run, we will need to update the actual look and feel of the site, and if we need a total revamp at some point - this will be expensive, as it always is.
Technology doesn't stand still as we sadly found out with our old forum which became totally unworkable after the platform and software was long discontinued. Keith kept it on life support for many years with custom written patches and workarounds - but in the end the new-tech hackers got into the old-tech software with its inherent weaknesses and we had to very quickly flip to where we are now.
After a long discussion the other week both Keith and I identified that in order to actually make a small amount of money to put in our 'improvements' fund we'd need to have a think about not only breaking even every year - but to make a small amount to invest back into the site in the future. This led us to think about the current varying levels of membership and how best to fairly monetise them whilst also giving access to everyone on the world wide web.
So, we have the saying "If you're not paying, YOU are the product". I'm not sure where it was first said, but it's very true. Companies who offer amazing platforms for free need to be getting their money from somewhere and most of it is simply the selling of your data, or having huge amounts of advertising. BeoWorld has neither, and never will have.
Currently we have three levels of membership as you know.
Bronze : Allows you to post on the Forum
Silver : Allows you to access User and Service Manuals
Gold : Allows Silver Benefits plus free entry into Prize Draw.
Our initial thoughts were to trim this down into two levels. One where the basics are free to anyone and everyone, and one for the person who really wants to use the site to either set up equipment, repair equipment, gain specialist advice and insight, and to generally get something they'd pay a specialist to do for them if they didn't have access to BeoWorld. If they are prepared to pay elsewhere, then we didn't think it unfair to charge ourselves - but obviously less.
You've then got to break it down into what should be free, and what should be 'chargeable' so to speak.
A free service, in our opinion, should be the ability to discuss products, share opinions and get general help in the set up and use of your Bang & Olufsen products. A broad brush, but one of general help and support for everyday Bang & Olufsen users. At the end of the day we want people to talk about the brand, be enthused and impressed, and buy the products - which is rather in line with the ethos of the actual company. Although on an official level I've heard absolutely nothing from Bang & Olufsen for some time now, I'm sure we are still appreciated?
To the "Paid" service. Now that the Prize Draw is once a year I think it doesn't give Gold Membership the (insanely good) value it used to have, so we can perhaps absorb it into another level of paid Membership and make it a very pleasant 'Bonus'.
So, what other paid 'perks' can we add? Well, we have them already - we have a huge database of user and service manuals, plus we have stacks and stacks (in multiple large boxes) of others, all waiting to be scanned in and uploaded to our server.
This leads us to my initial thought of just two levels of Membership, and here are my suggestions.
Basic (Free) Level. My thoughts on a name could be 'Standard Member', or 'Basic Member' or I'm open to suggestions. Whilst I'm not looking for a derogatory term in any way it needs to reflect that this member is non-paying (yet is still obviously very welcome!). This will get the member access to the current forum and be able to ask and/or answer any questions he or she may have.
The 'Paying' Level. On the paid level I am thinking this will gain you access to the whole uploaded User and Service Manual Library (we are working on a far better referencing system right now to let members know exactly what we do and don't have). It will also offer the Prize Draw once a year, of course.
In addition to this we wondered if we may be able to offer access to the Archived Forum - or wether you think this should be available to everyone? It could certainly be a 'perk' for paying members if it can be 'walled off' so to speak. Is this a good idea or a bad one, I don't know.
With regards the huge amount of additional manuals we really have, but don't have (literally) hundreds of hours to scan and upload we could list them as 'uploadable' and in hand. We could charge a flat fee to pull the hard copy from our archives, then scan and upload the manual to the database.
I'm sure there may be more 'perks' we could add for paid members though, and I'm sure you could maybe think of some? Suggestions please...
Finally - the name of this new level.. I'm thinking 'VIP Member' perhaps? Or 'Full Access Member'? Again - suggestions please.
Once we have a clearer roadmap of the two levels, and what they can offer, then we need to think about pricing. That's another discussion - but for now let's change the shape of the BeoWorld Memberships, simplify and streamline, and get the next stage of this website underway.
Over to you!
Hi 9LEE and Keith
Thank you both for thinking ahead - we need that!
9LEE wrote:
‘So, we have the saying “If you’re not paying, YOU are the product”. I’m not sure where it was first said, but it’s very true. Companies who offer amazing platforms for free need to be getting their money from somewhere and most of it is simply the selling of your data, or having huge amounts of advertising. BeoWorld has neither, and never will have.’
This is one main reason I stick to the Beoworld forum.
I’d like as much basic knowledge of B&O and the possibilities etc as possible to be free - including the access to the old and the old, old forum.
——
Call the interested person, who wants to write/ask or even contribute a ‘Basic Member’.
No trying to ‘sell-stuff-or-wanting-to-buy-stuff-posts’ however, should be allowed for the basic members.
The member with full access to everything could be called ‘VIP Member’.
Whatever you decide, it is a good idea to have only two levels.
Of course it needs to be visible on the website what the difference/the benefits of being a full/VIP member is…..including that one then contributes financially to the future of the forum.
MM
Location: Flensborg————Danmark
Hi Lee and Keith,
The basic forum user could just be called Beoworld Member, and we could be called Active Member or Donator or something like that?
I think the archived forums should be opened to everyone though.
Yearly draw it is then, and perhaps the full access to manuals is enough. Perhaps something that would cost nothing, like a free manual download per month for every member?
Best wishes,
Jacques
Jacques
Hi Lee, Keith and all Beoworlders,
Firstly, happy with an Annual Draw - good decision!
Ref membership, how about just 'Basic Member' and 'Premium Member'?
I agree with MM that archived Forums should be available to all registered members for free.
Additional benefits of 'Premium' status should include:
- Annual Prize Draw
- Manuals, where available
- Ability to Buy/Sell and post 'Wanted' ads - we need to tighten up on this, as there are very few places that you can 'trade' (private sales etc) within a respected enthusiast community.
Location: Warwickshire, UK
My B&O Icons:
Hello Lee and Keith
Im fine with the idea of reducing the memberships types to two, maybe it will make it more transparent what you pay for. No great ideas for naming.
I think it could be a good idea to have information about paying membership benefits presented up front, so it's easy to see what you can get by paying, and prefereable also on the forum pages as a lot of people may not get to the forum by the main page but by Google.
It could also be worth to make mention that it is not only about benefits, but also the support of running Beoworld and keeping it alive.
I think someone mentioned it in the other thread, but I also think that a visible donation button on both the main page, and on the forum pages with a note about supporting Beoworld could be a great idea.
An other idea for added benefit for paying members could also be acces to unofficial solutions developed by the users. As an example of that is Matadors exelent diagram in this thread
Location: Denmark
Good Day everyone, Lee and Keith
I have given this posting a degree of thought but have to admit a degree of ignorance to the working behind the scenes and the relationships with Sponsors, suppliers and B&O themselves. I'm also ignorant to the costs of a web-forum, hosting and development costs.
Shooting from the hip, here is my view-point: -
- The current forum is stale, has a limited number of niche Users and a very unappealing interface. There are too many sub-forums based on legacy site designs. Consolidate and simplify would be my first thought?
- There is or has been too much “control” or moderation on-site, based on keeping things civil – whereas in the other forums I regularly visit and participate in don’t seem to have that problem. There is too much onus on forum members “protecting” B&O operating revenues with keeping B&O secrecy. As far as I can determine, product releases are released unofficially either by Dealers/re-sellers, those with ties to B&O or B&O themselves. We are too quick to stifle “finds” on the Web, for the sake of upsetting B&O – when it is in fact it is in all in the public domain. Therefore a light hand or an even-lighter hand (let it rip) would be welcome. Stiffen-up buttercup.
- I perceive B&O doing very little to help this forum? My view is that Beoworld has long-served its purpose for B&O who I believe want to focus on HNWI’s rather than those of us who may tend towards the more to vintage and David-Lewis legacy era equipment. There may be a few “visits” or “previews” here and there given by B&O to some of the more enthusiastic members/moderators/Sponsors – either directly or indirectly but little that actually helps the site? Therefore like the so-called “Special relationship” between UK and US politicians, its not really Special and arguably not a relationship either? BeoWorld needs to decide where its position is?
- Manuals. Most legacy manuals are already out in the public domain (up to the Beolab5/7/9 era – I have not for instance seen the BL90 or Eclipse/Harmony manual out there??). I think/assume there is very little out there (B&O probably want more control of this now than premature product leaks?). I do not see this as a USP for paid membership tiers.
- Circle-back to point 1 again. I participate in a number of forums (B&O/Auralic/some watch forums/Wood-working and motorcar forums – where my hobbies/interest lie). I am also drifting more towards Mikipedias Discord B&O site (more on that in the next point). https://community.auralic.com/ and https://community.naimaudio.com/ are examples of Company-provided but not Company-controlled/dominated web forums. They are relatively fresh, clean and easy to search/reference. There is a very “light-touch” in terms of moderation and in-particular, the Auralic forum is very well behaved and sparsely populated with interactive Auralic employees.
- I assume there are costs to these sites like Auralic and Naim (there is very little advertising on these sites – if any) and either has a modest support by the OEM or use your data for a “free” web-site access. I would state here that web-forums today are so well-developed and extensive, that the prospect of preventing “you are the product” is well-past its sell-by date. Every data-miner in the world probably has multiple layers of intel on us all and out habits. With the advent of ChatGPT and other advanced algorithms, it is only a matter of time that these programs scan the entire interweb over multiple, separate and un-related forums and could therefore work-out our various aliases, interests, political leanings etc…etc…and know who we are. Therefore, I would dismiss “we are the product” argument as a constraint. Its going to happen one way or another.
- Discord is developing more and more as the future of chat forums. Mikipedia has develop his own excellent site (too many sub-forums for my taste, somewhat harder to reference info etc but quite dynamic and seems to have a much higher frequency of well-mannered regulars contributing than Beoworld). I don’t know how Mikipedia supports this Discord site (free, small annual fee, data-gathering) but he does, alone and it works very well. There is also a perception that his site leans more towards the “later-day” products and gossip rather than older legacy products. Either-way, he’s not charging £0/£15/£30 per annum membership fees for a growing and improving product over BeoWorld?
- Now I am fully aware that B&O is still a stuffy and undynamic and Conservative company. B&O have failed twice as far as I can recollect in its own Web-forum aspirations. I’m also aware they are now more interested in HNWI’s – now that us “Useful-Saps” have bailed them out (again) by buying countless discounted BeoPlay products that they can now once again neglect us (in a recession) and focus on the folly of chasing the dream of too-many-high-end-high-price products with a 30-minute shelf-life for the uninterested uber-rich and destroy their loyal buyer base (again)?? However, I do wonder if – there is a possibility for one-off support for BeoWorld by B&O to setup a new modern web-forum for BeoWorld to manage and tune to both B&O’s future pathway and BeoWorlds legacy stance? Im sure it’s a well trodden asking B&O path but I’m only asking?
- As per my earlier points, I’m against paid and tiered membership. Its not because of personal snobbery or affordability on my part but that (again my perception), is that this leads to a “tribal” take-over of the forum and ends up losing more regular contributors than it gains. I see Beoworld right now in this position and its withering-away.
- As a means to funding the site – I wonder – as a suggestion if it is possible/feasible for Beoworld to have an online shop? A shop that at one end can sell BeoWorld merch, but at the other (hopefully sponsored by B&O), selling a few BeoPlay-level products, with margins helping to support forum costs? This may not help the Dealers but not wont help BeoWorld and with Amazon, both stand to lose-out if you don’t?
- The prize-draw is nice but not essential. I viewed this as a way to generate membership fees with a draw-down of Lee’s stock (and business profitability) as a generous benefactor? I think streamlining the Web-forum this is not required – and to be frank, very few Web-forums offer anything like this (Fees or prizes). I think it is an unsustainable practice in numerous ways.
I agree with most of Mr10Pecent's comments.
With huge, and the upmost respect to the time, effort and financial outlay that the present owners have contributed, the questions that should now be asked are:
Who's purpose does the site now serve?
What is the appropriate vehicle to serve the purpose?
Is it a growing or declining purpose?
Yes, there are technical questions that get answers but the Discord forum can also provide this as well and its interactive design is more appropriate to the modern-day forum/blog user. It's a great resource for legacy products, but apart from this, and useful interventions from Geoff Martin, I think it has a very limited and diminishing value due to the growth of contemporary media.
I assume it does not serve the purpose of B&O because financial help is not the only way that contributions' to forums can serve a purpose (see the comment regarding Geoff, above). In fact, the absence of any official support, whilst the forum being hyper-sensitive to anything that B&O (may) disapprove of, is difficult to comprehend. I regret that Discord is also going in a similar direction.
Does it serve the purpose of the owners to attempt to construct a new forum model, involving fees and different tiers, when the real problem is that the structure and framework (indeed, the attitude) of an old-style forum is rapidly becoming outdated?
In this three-way, who does it serve? question, there must be at least two out of three stakeholders getting significant benefits and a judgement made whether the time, effort and financial outlay is worth it.
Can the forum play its part and bring its benefits within the framework of Discord would be one key question I would ask and if the owners feel committed to continuing in their current efforts then they have my best wishes.
Please don't shoot the messenger. I have tremendous respect for what has been a useful resource for me.
Login to view image (and apologies to the moderators for thread drift ... ?)Location: Warwickshire, UK
My B&O Icons:
You and your black boxes…
Location: Paris France
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